Please Identify Yourself When Posting

Open Discussion - for our Readers, Islanders, and Web Site Visitors alike. Discussion regarding any and all aspects of Beaver Island are welcome here. Also a place for general Beaver Island conversation and discussion.

Moderator: Gillespie

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Gillespie
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Please Identify Yourself When Posting

Post by Gillespie »

It is only fair when you reply to topics on this forum that you identify yourself. It certainly doesn't mean that harm will come to you! If you are sincere enough to post a comment then you must be realistic enough to say who posted it. Newspapers won't print items submitted by anonymous people. The intent here is more to the fact that people who won't identify themselves can say anything! Is that a fair way to operate? This forum is for any topic you might chose. If I as a topic started find that replys are posted from now on by anonymouse respondents they will likely be deleted. As far as other topics started by others they will only be deleted if they are offensive or inappropriate. And for the record, this is not my forum as some would suggest, it should be considered community property so have at it.
Nich
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:34 am

Anonymity

Post by Nich »

Hello:
I know I'm new to the island, and I don't have generations of family living here...but; I thought I would post my thoughts about this anonymity issue. When you say "Anonymous posts will be deleted." are you referring to your own computer? Or are you referring to this forum?
I have to say, if they will be deleted from the "Open Forum" then it won't be much of a forum. I realize you have to omit offensive materials, however, omitting materials because they were posted by an anonymous user is taking it a bit far. You would (if this was your intention) in effect, cancel out one of the greatest benefits of the internet. Anonymity is a part of free speech on an open forum, especially on the internet.
Have you ever belonged to a mailing list or newsgroup? With many of them, you are required to be anonymous and/or use a "handle." Actual names are not allowed. This to protect the submitter from unsolicited emails or harassment by others using the group/list/forum.
At any rate, I sincerely hope you do not omit anything from this forum except those messages that would be considered "offensive" to it's users.
By the way, I enjoyed all the discussion on the land-use issue. Going by the facts posted on this forum, it seems like a very complicated issue. I won't post my own opinion on it, simply because I don't have enough facts about it, and I wasn't at the meetings in question. It was a definite "eye-opener."
Handle on this forum - Nich.
Ted Nicholas
nich01@tds.net
Rich

Post by Rich »

Ted, I agree with you for the most part but things change when you are debating something and someone who feels they have the "answer" such as anonymous did in the Challenge topic. If you want to comment and make your point in a case like that anyone can sling mud but if you are going to make an accusation then you should state who you are. For example someone who did not want to be caught up in the mess sent me an e-mail stating that they agreed with my point of view and also stated that they felt they knew who the writer was. This is what provoked the request. Now, if you should start a topic and receive numerous responses that might have some offense to them I would be compelled to delete them. If they are anonymous but not offensive they would stay. However, if I start a topic and ask that people identify themselves and they choose not to after I have asked that they do then it would be my choice don't you agree?
Nich
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:34 am

Post by Nich »

Well, I can understand your intent. But, I believe everyone has a right to ignore whatever comments are made on an internet forum. However, if it's posted to a public forum, then it's intended for everyone to see it, or ignore it. In my opinion, starting a topic shouldn't give you control over who gets to respond. We should all have a chance to ignore any comments we wish. :-)
As for accusations, I can see your point. But those situations should be handled through personal email, not on a public "open" forum.

Websters dictionary describes "open" as:
0pen (�2põn) adj.
1.a. Affording unobstructed entrance and exit; not shut or closed. b. Affording unobstructed passage or view.
2.a. Having no protecting or concealing cover. b. Completely obvious; blatant. c. Carried on in full view.

I think you are unwittingly making it "your" forum when you wield control over a topic that the rest of us do not have. Can I delete anonymous replies? Probably not. Starting a topic should not give me control over who can reply. I would be making decisions for other people without their consent. I would be limiting the information available to them, due to my own beliefs. This would be contrary to the basic idea of an "open forum."
Making decisions for other people, based on your own emotions would be as bad as the "planning commitee" affair. Should this forum be conducted in a true "open" manner, or is it someones "pet?" And they get to do as they please with it.

I guess my main gripe would be, having someone else decide for me, what information I have available. I am mature enough to decide for myself if I want to ignore a comment by an anonymous user.
Please, don't misunderstand me. I can feel for your situation, and I've been there before on several mailing lists and forums. Anonymous insults are hard to deal with. However, if you put your thoughts on an open forum, you're taking a chance on getting some "unusual" feedback. You shouldn't alter the forum to take control of the situation. Remember, you're altering "my" forum as well.
I have moderated 2 forums in the past, a writers forum, and an AI programmers forum. Both were frequented by top executives in the software fields. I have moderated Q&A and beta-testing mailing lists as well. Heavily used by dozens of programmers. You wouldn't believe some of the insulting, and down-right stupid messages that would show up on these lists from time to time. I would always consider them as "brain-farts" and ignore them.
Insulting accusations are harder to ignore, for sure. But I would just consider the source. An "anonymous" insult isn't much to get riled about.
If someone started "slamming" an individual, anonymous or not, they would be given a warning. If it continues, they would be blocked from posting, if possible. Usually, even if they cannot be blocked, we would delete their messages before posting the data. But this was only after several warnings. And, it was based on the content, not the fact that they were anonymous.
We always had to tread very lightly when making decisions about the "open-ness" of the forums. Freedom of speech and freedom to remain anonymous are rights that are protected, even on the internet.

That's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it. But please, don't delete it.
Ted Nicholas
nich01@tds.net
JeremyMcBain

posts

Post by JeremyMcBain »

Unnamed posts should be deleted. Just like in my newspaper, we do not print unsigned letters. People need to take reponsibility for their posts and opinions. Be brave, speak your mind and let others know who you are.
Nich
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:34 am

Anonymous replies

Post by Nich »

Well, maybe I stand corrected. The forum should definitely be tailored to the wishes of it's community. My only concern is for the freedom of the forum. Sure, it STARTS with only anonymous posts being deleted. Until something else comes along that a moderator doesn't like, then more posts will be deleted, then something else will come along, and so on. It's a dangerous road to start down. Before you know it, you can end up with a closed forum, instead of an open forum.
However, if that's the users wishes as well, than it still meets the needs of the community, or at least the needs of the moderator. You may want to change the name from "Open" though, since it won't actually be an open forum.
One other point to consider, forcing users to reveal themselves on the internet is not always a good thing. Beaver Island may be remote, but this forum is not. Anyone from anywhere in the world can get on this forum and gather any information they see.
I won't push this any more, since I don't have any more real information to add. Except...
I do think this forum is a great benefit and should conform to what the majority of it's users want. I simply didn't want to see it become overly restricted.
Ted
Ted Nicholas
nich01@tds.net
Nich
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:34 am

OK, one more.

Post by Nich »

One more thing I'd like to add. My opinions about the "open-ness" of the forum have nothing to do with my thoughts about it's moderators. I have not had the pleasure of meeting any of it's moderators yet. They've been working to moderate this forum long before I moved to the island. They are doing a great job!
My opinions about the "open" matter spring only from past experience with other forums. So please, don't take any of my opinions personally. I'm glad there is a forum on the island, the efforts of the moderators are what makes it possible.
Many thanks for your efforts!
Ted
Ted Nicholas
nich01@tds.net
anonymous2

Re: posts

Post by anonymous2 »

JeremyMcBain wrote:Unnamed posts should be deleted. Just like in my newspaper, we do not print unsigned letters. People need to take reponsibility for their posts and opinions. Be brave, speak your mind and let others know who you are.

This isent Newspaper.. the thread should be Deleted it's Useless. :roll: :wink:
Rich

Post by Rich »

Nich makes valid points regarding the validity of anonymous replies or not. First of all, the headline does not say Beaver Island "Open" Forum, it simply says Beaver Island Forum. Secondly if you read through my posts I asked that, if I start a thread, please identify yourself when replying. I did not say that everyone should in every case, however, if a person posts a thread and identifies themselves it only stands to reason that a respondent should do the same. Mr. McBain is absolutely correct in that a person should identify themselves. Years ago I recall newspapers receiving anonymous letters which finally had to be stopped. It is very simple, if you have the gumption to post a reply you should have the gumption to identify yourself. As I said in my post, if you respond to a thread that I may have started I ask that you identify yourself. If someone else starts a thread and someone anonymously posts a reply it is not my obligation to delete it unless it contains offensive words. In the past I have referred those items to the owner of the forum who has deleted them either by mutuaL agreement or by his own choice. Again, if I start a thread I ask that the respondent identify themselves. Anyone else can do it any way they choose. I must however, once again, agree with Mr. McBain, people should use their name if they are going to put something in the public domain. Thanks.
Jeff
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Location: Beaver Island
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Post by Jeff »

First of all, the headline
Well, actually I did put 'Main Beaver Island Open Discussion Forum' as the link to the forum which appears as a Subheading. I wanted to stress that it was open to everyone, and regardless of whether or not a name is required to post, I think you and I both agree it will always be an "open" forum in that any person can post responsibly and it's open to any topic for discussion.

Anonymity is a tricky issue. This forum is different than say a php coding forum in that the community here is also real, and the issues can be much more heated than arguing over abstract code and insults can also be more hurtful and difficult to ignore. I am honestly not sure where the right balance is for a forum, and this one in particular, between 'public record' and 'a place to discuss without fear.'

I think in certain cases, anonymity can be empowering and important on the Internet -- if the posts are productive and not simply mudslinging that is.

First, anonymity allows people to ask questions that they might not otherwise feel free to ask. Have you ever hesitated and not asked a question because you thought it was something you should already know, or something that people would think you were silly for asking? Being allowed to post anonymously or with a screen name or first name only allows the freedom to ask anything you want to know without worrying that you will be judged by your questions. Also, one difference between a forum and a newspaper is that while a newspaper is archived at a library, the Internet makes historic content much more easily accessible to everyone, and as such, if you post with your full name, questions or opinions you post today can be found in google or sites like archive.org ten years from now if someone searches for your name. Will this inhibit people from posting their honest opinions?

Second, anonymity sometimes is important to allow people to post their honest feelings without worrying about possible repercussions. If you disagree with something your boss or friend or overseeing committee feels strongly about or has a financial interest in, would you post, even an entirely factual post, with your full name attached knowing it might change your working relationship for years to come? Or would you decide that your job security or future employment is more important than stating what you believe?

Not related to the Island, I remember a few months ago reading about someone being taken to court because they posted an online review under their full name about a company who many people said was really disreputable and which did not deliver as advertised and flat-out refused to make things right. Regardless of right or wrong or the ultimate judgement, Iâ??m not sure people would risk such a large fight simply to share an honest opinion or review. Again this isnâ??t specific to the Island, but itâ??s one of the things that was on my mind as I argued for anonymous posts being allowed.

I do think we all agree that posts should be content-oriented and not insults; my personal opinion is that posts should contain either a name or some facts or ideas to back them up, and I would not object to posts being deleted with contain neither.
Nich
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:34 am

Follow-up

Post by Nich »

OK, one more post on this topic.
I wanted to reiterate my feelings on the anonymity issue. Again, it's not the anonymous part that was my main message, although I DO think anonymous posts should be allowed. More important to me, and probably to all of us, is the idea of someone else deciding for me, what is fit to read and what isn't. Censorship, in any form, should be as limited as possible. Obviously, a post that contains no facts, and is purely mud slinging, isn't worth reading.
However, deleting posts "for any reason" IS a form of censorship, and it should be used very sparingly, and very responsibly.
I think the moderators have been doing a good job all along, otherwise that anonymous insult would never have been posted in the first place. My hat's off to you on that one Rich, it must've been a hard one to post.
But I still feel that censorship, in any form, should be used very sparingly and responsibly. As it obviously has been on this forum so far. Let's keep the freedom of information flowing on this forum as much as possible.
Ted
Ted Nicholas
nich01@tds.net
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